This episode features two wonderful and creative thinkers and religious souls whose lives have been deeply influenced by Joseph Smith. But here is the kicker: neither are Latter-day Saints. Jane Barnes and Rob Lauer view Joseph through eyes we don't often (if ever) encounter within institutional Mormonism. Perhaps very few outside some who knew him personally were attracted by what most fascinates and enlivens them.
Jane was the primary writer and researcher for the 2007 PBS/Frontline and Helen Whitney produced documentary film, The Mormons. During her time working on the film, and even earlier, she came to appreciate Joseph as a dynamic, creative, prophetic figure, and she even had a "conversion" experience in which she understood him as a key figure in her awakening to her own spirituality. Ultimately, her experiences led her to write a much-celebrated memoir, Falling in Love with Joseph Smith: My Search for the Real Prophet (Tarcher/Penguin, 2012).
Rob encountered Joseph Smith in his teens, and connected deeply with him in a way that led him to join the church. As he encountered the disconnect between how he saw and encountered Joseph versus how the church and its culture had tamed him and bleached out of him most of the color and life that he had been attracted to, he left Mormonism. He re-joined for a while, even co-directing the Hill Cumorah pageant for seven years, before he felt Joseph's teachings led him out of the church again—but not because he didn't embrace them any longer but because they empowered him to see his being gay as an essential part of his deep spiritual identity, while also seeing that the church wasn't capable of sustaining him as a gay man. To this day, however, he still says his is a religion "of" Joseph Smith (meaning he believes his key and empowering insights about humans, gods, and life's highest call).
Interestingly, both Jane and Rob encountered Joseph Smith first through Fawn Brodie's book, No One Knows My History, which is generally thought by members as anti-Mormon. For them, however, they found a powerful figure on a unique journey, with gifts and creativity, that became a catalyst for their own spiritual walks.
Notice as you listen to this episode how taking a fresh look at Joseph from outside the "boxes" we in the church so often put him in and want to limit him to can allow us to see him in much more vibrant detail. As writers and artists (novelist/filmmaker and playwright/television producer/newspaper editor), they see Joseph as bold and imaginative as well as good and kind, but also as broken and full of contradictions, many of them that are very unappealing. Still, they see him as a "prophet" in the larger sense of the word rather than the limited view we in the church have cultivated as we have idealized the term, turned the title into a "president" of an institution, and shied away from representing him in all his humanness. It's this very humanness that leads them to love and appreciate him in ways that feel, at least to me, to be much more powerful than the level of encounter of most Latter-day Saints.
Dr. LaShawn Williams (EdD., LCSW, MPA) is on the faculty at Utah Valley University, where she teaches students studying social work. LaShawn was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and faced many challenges associated with being a black child and then black woman in a predominantly white church community (in the United States) from the 1980s to the present day. In this episode she freely and forthrightly shares about these sorts of challenges as they played out in her life and that of her family. But most of all, the conversation involves how these challenges (and a wonderfully supportive parents) led to her developing a fierce sense of her own right to question things and use her voice to speak up for things that so many of us fail to even notice, let alone think about. She also shares how so much of this power and confidence emerged from a deep spiritual life and connection with God and Jesus Christ—one that was often severely tried but never severed.
As a result of this confidence, she and six other black women formed the Black LDS Legacy Committee, which earlier this year began to put on events that brought forward the history and firm roots of black people in Mormonism right from the beginning on through now. And it was through the Committee's determination to tell these stories that the Church itself embraced their ideas in such strength that they became one of the driving forces behind what became the "Be One" event that occurred in the Conference Center on June 1, 2018, acknowledging and celebrating the fortieth anniversary of the 1978 revelation that officially restored to black persons what LaShawn and many others already knew, that all are equal before God, and they should be recognized as such by access to the temple and its covenants and blessings, as well as priesthood power and leadership. It is terrific that in this episode we have a chance to hear pieces of that story—and about what she and the rest of the members of the committee are planning to do next.
In the final section of this two-part episode, LaShawn and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon discuss spiritual work, inner work, Godwrestling, and how and why we are all called by God/Life to re-examine everything and come to better grasp who we are as divine beings who, as is natural, allowed our veiled understanding of this deep truth become clouded by life's ups and downs and various messaging to the contrary that we let influence us and further bury this sense of our noble birthright. The focus, of course, is on ways we can and the importance of going into these difficult spaces, into our woundedness, into the roots of why we often refuse to believe that we are infinitely worthy. It's a terrific segment, as is this whole interview.
We know you'll enjoy listening!
Dr. LaShawn Williams (EdD., LCSW, MPA) is on the faculty at Utah Valley University, where she teaches students studying social work. LaShawn was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and faced many challenges associated with being a black child and then black woman in a predominantly white church community (in the United States) from the 1980s to the present day. In this episode she freely and forthrightly shares about these sorts of challenges as they played out in her life and that of her family. But most of all, the conversation involves how these challenges (and a wonderfully supportive parents) led to her developing a fierce sense of her own right to question things and use her voice to speak up for things that so many of us fail to even notice, let alone think about. She also shares how so much of this power and confidence emerged from a deep spiritual life and connection with God and Jesus Christ—one that was often severely tried but never severed.
As a result of this confidence, she and six other black women formed the Black LDS Legacy Committee, which earlier this year began to put on events that brought forward the history and firm roots of black people in Mormonism right from the beginning on through now. And it was through the Committee's determination to tell these stories that the Church itself embraced their ideas in such strength that they became one of the driving forces behind what became the "Be One" event that occurred in the Conference Center on June 1, 2018, acknowledging and celebrating the fortieth anniversary of the 1978 revelation that officially restored to black persons what LaShawn and many others already knew, that all are equal before God, and they should be recognized as such by access to the temple and its covenants and blessings, as well as priesthood power and leadership. It is terrific that in this episode we have a chance to hear pieces of that story—and about what she and the rest of the members of the committee are planning to do next.
In the final section of this two-part episode, LaShawn and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon discuss spiritual work, inner work, Godwrestling, and how and why we are all called by God/Life to re-examine everything and come to better grasp who we are as divine beings who, as is natural, allowed our veiled understanding of this deep truth become clouded by life's ups and downs and various messaging to the contrary that we let influence us and further bury this sense of our noble birthright. The focus, of course, is on ways we can and the importance of going into these difficult spaces, into our woundedness, into the roots of why we often refuse to believe that we are infinitely worthy. It's a terrific segment, as is this whole interview.
Please listen!
The October 2018 General Conference has just concluded, but certainly not the discussion of it! Not for many, many months in our wards, stakes, and various gatherings of Mormons, and not here on Mormon Matters podcast (though we promise it won't be for "months and months")!
It was a fascinating conference with quite a few different dynamics at play, and so we gathered the next evening three wonderful and brilliant church and conference watcher—Jenne Alderks, Scott Turley, and Sara Lake—to share their immediate, raw, unprocessed but very powerful takes on what they noticed and how they experienced it. What followed was a remarkably energetic, passionate, moving—as well as fun (even a slight bit snarky at times conversation). Along with Mormon Matters host, Dan Wotherspoon, each shared from her or his compassionate and empathetic heart and soul, offering gratitude and praise where they felt it was deserved (and the cases were many), and sorrow, frustration, confusion, and genuine exasperation, sorrow, and hurt over some teachings or leader choices that called for it.
The discussion begins with reactions to, and wondering how the newly announced two-hour block of meetings will play out in the lives of Latter-day Saints. It then turns to key talks and features of the conference. Part 1 addresses a few talks, though some of the same ones continue to be discussed in the second part, but it primarily features an extended conversation about the General Women's Session and its messaging, both wonderful and hurtful, not to mention confusing in its mixed signaling. Part 2 features discussions of the panelists other highlights or lowlights, and is careful to be aware of those who are listening who might not have followed conference at all and are coming to this episode for their first exposure to what went on and how many our reacting to it. Dan closes this section by offering a few comments that remained on his list but were unspoken during the main recording session.
We believe that anyone who listens to this episode will be captivated by the fun the panelists had together even while they were raising deeply heartfelt issues and experiences. Please tune in! You are also invited to contribute to the conversations in the Comments section for this episode at MormonMatters.org. Thank you!
The October 2018 General Conference has just concluded, but certainly not the discussion of it! Not for many, many months in our wards, stakes, and various gatherings of Mormons, and not here on Mormon Matters podcast (though we promise it won't be for "months and months")!
It was a fascinating conference with quite a few different dynamics at play, and so we gathered the next evening three wonderful and brilliant church and conference watcher—Jenne Alderks, Scott Turley, and Sara Lake—to share their immediate, raw, unprocessed but very powerful takes on what they noticed and how they experienced it. What followed was a remarkably energetic, passionate, moving—as well as fun (even a slight bit snarky at times conversation). Along with Mormon Matters host, Dan Wotherspoon, each shared from her or his compassionate and empathetic heart and soul, offering gratitude and praise where they felt it was deserved (and the cases were many), and sorrow, frustration, confusion, and genuine exasperation, sorrow, and hurt over some teachings or leader choices that called for it.
The discussion begins with reactions to, and wondering how the newly announced two-hour block of meetings will play out in the lives of Latter-day Saints. It then turns to key talks and features of the conference. Part 1 addresses a few talks, though some of the same ones continue to be discussed in the second part, but it primarily features an extended conversation about the General Women's Session and its messaging, both wonderful and hurtful, not to mention confusing in its mixed signaling. Part 2 features discussions of the panelists other highlights or lowlights, and is careful to be aware of those who are listening who might not have followed conference at all and are coming to this episode for their first exposure to what went on and how many our reacting to it. Dan closes this section by offering a few comments that remained on his list but were unspoken during the main recording session.
We believe that anyone who listens to this episode will be captivated by the fun the panelists had together even while they were raising deeply heartfelt issues and experiences. Please tune in! You are also invited to contribute to the conversations in the Comments section for this episode at MormonMatters.org. Thank you!
We've all heard statements such as, "Obedience is the first law of heaven." We've also been charged to seek our own light and revelation on any teaching or directive presented before the whole church. What happens when the second injunction challenges the first? If we in good "conscience" (what many Latter-day Saints call the Light of Christ) cannot assent to what's put forward (and this can include in our local church settings, as well), how shall we approach this dilemma? It seems that wrestles with this particular pairing of injunctions—obedience and conscience—arise around general conference time, so this is a timely podcast.
For this discussion, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by the wonderful and thoughtful Jana Riess, Caleb Jones, and Eric Huntsman. Each of them share terrific ideas about how they frame and clarify in their own minds and hearts as the horns of this dilemma arise in their own lives. They dive into the origins of and wider issues surrounding "obedience," and much more! The conversation is absolutely terrific!
Please listen and then share your responses at the Mormon Matters podcast website!
We've all heard statements such as, "Obedience is the first law of heaven." We've also been charged to seek our own light and revelation on any teaching or directive presented before the whole church. What happens when the second challenges the first? If we in good "conscience" (what many Latter-day Saints call the Light of Christ) cannot assent to what's put forward (and this can include in our local church settings, as well), how shall we approach this dilemma? It seems that wrestles with this particular pairing of injunctions—obedience and conscience—arise around general conference time, so this is a timely podcast.
For this discussion, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by the wonderful and thoughtful Jana Riess, Caleb Jones, and Eric Huntsman. Each of them share terrific ideas about how they frame and clarify in their own minds and hearts as the horns of this dilemma arise in their own lives. They dive into the origins of and wider issues surrounding "obedience," and much more! The conversation is absolutely terrific!
Please listen and then share your responses at the Mormon Matters podcast website!
In just over a week after the release of this podcast episode, millions of Latter-day Saints from around the world will gather in person or other ways to hear messages from Mormonism's highest leadership councils. No one knows in advance what messages will be presented, what each male of female leader will have been inspired to prepare for the membership, but it has become a favorite pastime of many to speculate, and especially when leaders have given certain hints about possible changes in the near horizon. Such is the case here again.
In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by two other close conference watcher, Susan Hinckley and James Cottrell to discuss what we are hearing (and in that arena they focus primarily upon remarks given by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland three weeks ago in Draper, Utah, which contain several provocative statements), what we hope might happen, worry might happen, but most importantly how these three prepare themselves in advance to be able to receive whatever unfolds with an open and compassionate heart, and to be thoughtful and careful as they weigh the messages and policy or program changes that get announced.
The discussion is terrific. Please listen, enjoy, and allow yourselves to breath deeply and put yourself in as good a frame of mind as you can.
Please listen and enjoy!
In just over a week after the release of this podcast episode, millions of Latter-day Saints from around the world will gather in person or other ways to hear messages from Mormonism's highest leadership councils. No one knows in advance what messages will be presented, what each male of female leader will have been inspired to prepare for the membership, but it has become a favorite pastime of many to speculate, and especially when leaders have given certain hints about possible changes in the near horizon. Such is the case here again.
In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by two other close conference watchers, Susan Hinckley and James Cottrell to discuss what we are hearing (and in that arena they focus primarily upon remarks given by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland three weeks ago in Draper, Utah, which contain several provocative statements), what we hope might happen, worry might happen, but most importantly how these three prepare themselves in advance to be able to receive whatever unfolds with an open and compassionate heart, and to be thoughtful and careful as they weigh the messages and policy or program changes that get announced.
The discussion is terrific. Please listen, enjoy, and allow yourselves to breath deeply and put yourself in as good a frame of mind as you can.
Just two weeks ago, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the first volume of its long-awaited history of the church series, Saints: The Standard of Truth. Written in the form of an engaging narrative, this book covers events in church history beginning in 1815 and concluding in 1846 as the Saints were forced out of Nauvoo and headed to Iowa to prepare to embark the next year on their westward migration.
The book includes like nothing before in official church history many stories about women—of their heroism, brilliant minds, and spiritual depth—who contributed mightily to the establishment and survival of the early church. It introduces many stories of immigrants and black Latter-day Saints, and their faith and successes in helping build and shape the Restoration. This new official church history volume is also especially notable for how it includes many details (often viewed as difficult and faith-dampening) about persons and events that are likely unknown to most Latter-day Saints. These include: an unprecedented-in-church-curricula amount of forthright attention to Joseph Smith's involvement in treasure seeking, an expanded First Vision depiction that is woven together and harmonized from Joseph's four first-hand accounts of what he experienced in the grove; a story of the translation of the Book of Mormon that includes his use of a seer stone and a hat in bringing it forth; the failures of the Kirtland Safety Society and Zion's Camp (referred to in the volume as the Camp of Israel); Joseph's own personal engagement in polygamous marriages; the Saints' own sometimes aggressive behavior that fueled escalations of violence against them; questionable decisions regarding calling certain individuals to high positions within the church, as well as choosing to destroy the press that printed the Nauvoo Expositor, which led quite directly to Joseph's and Hyrum's martyrdom.
We are thrilled and blessed to have the voices and perspectives of brilliant panelists in this two-part episode. They are the wonderful Megan Burnside, David E. MacKay, Brittney Hartley, and Cristina Rosetti. In Part 1 (Episode 508), they focus on the project itself and the approach to its history the church has chosen to take, their sense of the project's contributions along with areas in which it falls short, and their takes on what seem to be the church's primary goals in creating this series and how successful they think they will be met through an effort such as this. In Part 2 (Episode 509), they focus in on specific stories in the volumes and the choices that were made regarding what to leave in, what to leave out, why the church might have chosen to emphasize the reading of historical documents the way they did, over and against other options (some fairly well known but passed over here in favor of others). In every instance and comment, the tremendous intellects and good, good hearts of each panelist shine brightly.
Please listen and enjoy!
Just two weeks ago, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the first volume of its long-awaited history of the church series, Saints: The Standard of Truth. Written in the form of an engaging narrative, this book covers events in church history beginning in 1815 and concluding in 1846 as the Saints were forced out of Nauvoo and headed to Iowa to prepare to embark the next year on their westward migration.
The book includes like nothing before in official church history many stories about women—of their heroism, brilliant minds, and spiritual depth—who contributed mightily to the establishment and survival of the early church. It introduces many stories of immigrants and black Latter-day Saints, and their faith and successes in helping build and shape the Restoration. This new official church history volume is also especially notable for how it includes many details (often viewed as difficult and faith-dampening) about persons and events that are likely unknown to most Latter-day Saints. These include: an unprecedented-in-church-curricula amount of forthright attention to Joseph Smith's involvement in treasure seeking, an expanded First Vision depiction that is woven together and harmonized from Joseph's four first-hand accounts of what he experienced in the grove; a story of the translation of the Book of Mormon that includes his use of a seer stone and a hat in bringing it forth; the failures of the Kirtland Safety Society and Zion's Camp (referred to in the volume as the Camp of Israel); Joseph's own personal engagement in polygamous marriages; the Saints' own sometimes aggressive behavior that fueled escalations of violence against them; questionable decisions regarding calling certain individuals to high positions within the church, as well as choosing to destroy the press that printed the Nauvoo Expositor, which led quite directly to Joseph's and Hyrum's martyrdom.
We are thrilled and blessed to have the voices and perspectives of brilliant panelists in this two-part episode. They are the wonderful Megan Burnside, David E. MacKay, Brittney Hartley, and Cristina Rosetti. In Part 1 (Episode 508), they focus on the project itself and the approach to its history the church has chosen to take, their sense of the project's contributions along with areas in which it falls short, and their takes on what seem to be the church's primary goals in creating this series and how successful they think they will be met through an effort such as this. In Part 2 (Episode 509), they focus in on specific stories in the volumes and the choices that were made regarding what to leave in, what to leave out, why the church might have chosen to emphasize the reading of historical documents the way they did, over and against other options (some fairly well known but passed over here in favor of others). In every instance and comment, the tremendous intellects and good, good hearts of each panelist shine brightly.
Please listen and enjoy!
At this moment, with the 2018 October General Conference just weeks away, many Latter-day Saints are—consciously and unconsciously—going through in their minds and hearts how they view and feel about teachings from the church's top leaders. What is their authoritative status? Are they to be considered on par with (or even superior and more authoritative than) the teachings found within the Standard Works? And what about our own personal revelation on particular subjects? How does that fit into the mix with scripture and statements and teachings from LDS general authorities? Do we leave aside our own sense of what God has led us to believe and simply shape our worldviews according to the leaders' teachings because they can't/won't lead us astray? Or do we wrestle and seek a way to honor all these sources of authority? This episode discusses these and other dilemmas related to what makes something "canonical" (in some way)—for the church as a whole, and/or for each of us personally.
In addition to the upcoming general conference, this conversation was prompted by a set of studies and essays that have been recently compiled together and published in a new volume: The Expanded Canon: Perspectives on Mormonism & Sacred Texts (Greg Kofford Books). In the episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and the book's three editors, Blair Van Dyke, Brian D. Birch, and Boyd J. Peterson share about the above, and other book topics. They go into those mentioned above, as well as the authoritative status of women's writings, the nature of the shifts the church's views on electronic publishing have undergone (are we seeing online versions of the scriptures and other teachings shared via the web as equal in status of the same things in print?), and also the authoritative status of official "Proclamations" the church has issued in the past, and recently, with a particular focus on "The Family: A Proclamation to the World." To what degree are various Latter-day Saints incorporating this proclamation into their own "personal canon"?
Dan and the editors also briefly introduce other subjects taken on in the volume, such as the best way to approach reading scriptures, the place and role of the Golden Plates in LDS consciousness and conversation, how the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price wound their way into canonical status, as well as the very character of each of the teachings within these books and what tasks or roles they perform in Mormon hearts and minds. They also overview a few particulars of most of the book's other topics, including how one non-Mormon scholar of religion approaches LDS truth claims, especially those contained in discussions surrounding the Golden Plates: their finding, taking possession of, translating, and being revealed to chosen witnesses, and proposes a third way that falls between full belief in all the events as reported and the conclusion many land on: that Joseph Smith is fraud and deliberate deceiver. And finally, what about patriarchal blessings? How do Mormons view them and their role in their personal lives? Where do these reverenced spiritual creations fit in the idea of the Mormon (or personal) "canon" ?
The episode grounds itself in the book and its coming together, but The Expanded Canon is used primarily as a springboard for getting into the profound issues and the wrestles they generate for both the institutional church and its members. We think you will really enjoy what transpires in this two-part episode, and that you will come away with many things worth chewing on in your own church- and self-examinations.
At this moment, with the 2018 October General Conference just weeks away, many Latter-day Saints are—consciously and unconsciously—going through in their minds and hearts how they view and feel about teachings from the church's top leaders. What is their authoritative status? Are they to be considered on par with (or even superior and more authoritative than) the teachings found within the Standard Works? And what about our own personal revelation on particular subjects? How does that fit into the mix with scripture and statements and teachings from LDS general authorities? Do we leave aside our own sense of what God has led us to believe and simply shape our worldviews according to the leaders' teachings because they can't/won't lead us astray? Or do we wrestle and seek a way to honor all these sources of authority? This episode discusses these and other dilemmas related to what makes something "canonical" (in some way)—for the church as a whole, and/or for each of us personally.
In addition to the upcoming general conference, this conversation was prompted by a set of studies and essays that have been recently compiled together and published in a new volume: The Expanded Canon: Perspectives on Mormonism & Sacred Texts (Greg Kofford Books). In the episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and the book's three editors, Blair Van Dyke, Brian D. Birch, and Boyd J. Peterson share about the above, and other book topics. They go into those mentioned above, as well as the authoritative status of women's writings, the nature of the shifts the church's views on electronic publishing have undergone (are we seeing online versions of the scriptures and other teachings shared via the web as equal in status of the same things in print?), and also the authoritative status of official "Proclamations" the church has issued in the past, and recently, with a particular focus on "The Family: A Proclamation to the World." To what degree are various Latter-day Saints incorporating this proclamation into their own "personal canon"?
Dan and the editors also briefly introduce other subjects taken on in the volume, such as the best way to approach reading scriptures, the place and role of the Golden Plates in LDS consciousness and conversation, how the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price wound their way into canonical status, as well as the very character of each of the teachings within these books and what tasks or roles they perform in Mormon hearts and minds. They also overview a few particulars of most of the book's other topics, including how one non-Mormon scholar of religion approaches LDS truth claims, especially those contained in discussions surrounding the Golden Plates: their finding, taking possession of, translating, and being revealed to chosen witnesses, and proposes a third way that falls between full belief in all the events as reported and the conclusion many land on: that Joseph Smith is fraud and deliberate deceiver. And finally, what about patriarchal blessings? How do Mormons view them and their role in their personal lives? Where do these reverenced spiritual creations fit in the idea of the Mormon (or personal) "canon" ?
The episode speaks of the book and tells of its coming together, but it is used primarily as a springboard for getting into these quite profound issues and the wrestles they generate for both the institutional church and its members. We think you will really enjoy what transpires in this two-part episode, and will come away with many things worth chewing on in your own church- and self-examinations.
No one who has appeared before on Mormon Matters has a more interesting, diverse, and ecumenical religious journey than Father Tom Roberts—one that also includes Mormonism from his very early years on through today. Father Tom has been on the show several times in the past, but in this episode we query in greater depth than previously about his faith walk, and we also zero in far more directly on his main study, writing, and teaching emphases: theosis/divinization and the enthronement passages within the Hebrew Bible and New Testament that are so often not not even noticed, let alone understood at all, by Christians and Latter-day Saints, as well as (what he has most recently released in a short book) divorce and remarriage from a Middle Eastern Biblical approach. It's a study that in some instances very clearly shows how so many in Christendom have completely missed the meaning of such difficult passages as "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery" (Matthew 5:31–32). The clarifications Tom offers on these matters is much, much needed!
A big question framing the podcast is also how might a better understanding of the topics touched on herein mitigate some of the deep malaise many Latter-day Saints are feeling because of the primary ways that the correlated church has chosen to present the scriptures, as well as its own most profound teachings, in such a flat and quite lifeless way.
We believe you'll be intrigued by much that Father Tom shares in this interview, and we hope that some will feel drawn to contact Tom to possibly collaborate with him on projects and dialogues and in study settings. The rewards could be many.
Earlier this month, Mormon Matters released its 500th episode. In this two-part podcast, host Dan Wotherspoon speaks about the show's evolution, but mostly he re-introduces some of the major themes and angles of approach to Mormonism and personal faith journeys--ideas, analogies, and framings that have come up fairly regularly in the show's history, either directly or in passing as its panel discussions centered on specific topics.
We hope long-time listeners as well as those less familiar with the podcast and its basic sensibilities will find it fun to re-immerse in topics such as the importance of answering the call to explore one's faith more deeply, to begin the quests of what Joseph Campbell has labeled the "hero's journey," to examine the different types of truth in play within human lives and how asking religion or spirituality questions solely from another field and its methodologies will never yield fully satisfying answers. To revisit Father David Steindl-Rast's analogy of how religions begin and take their shape by comparing their starts to the eruption of a volcano and what transpires over time following the bursts.
In another section, Dan concentrates on various ways to approach scripture that might enliven them for us once more, should our current ways of reading and encountering the material in them have begun to wax cold--and he then suggests how these same approaches might also revive the way we look at and the gifts we receive through our prayer lives, temple attendance, and so forth. He then takes on questions and issues so many of us face as we as individuals interact with institutions. How do we honor both our wants and needs as well as those of the Church? What can we learn from realizing the reality of these different types of goals and how this de-fangs in some way the negativity that can be generated as they end up, as so often they do, at cross-purposes? How can we protect ourselves from being swallowed up by the institution and losing our connection with God and the primacy of our own journey and growth?
We hope you'll enjoy this trip down memory lane, and its refreshers about important themes and sensibilities that often play out within Mormon Matters discussions!
Earlier this month, Mormon Matters released its 500th episode. In this two-part podcast, host Dan Wotherspoon speaks about the show's evolution, but mostly he re-introduces some of the major themes and angles of approach to Mormonism and personal faith journeys--ideas, analogies, and framings that have come up fairly regularly in the show's history, either directly or in passing as its panel discussions centered on specific topics.
We hope long-time listeners as well as those less familiar with the podcast and its basic sensibilities will find it fun to re-immerse in topics such as the importance of answering the call to explore one's faith more deeply, to begin the quests of what Joseph Campbell has labeled the "hero's journey," to examine the different types of truth in play within human lives and how asking religion or spirituality questions solely from another field and its methodologies will never yield fully satisfying answers. To revisit Father David Steindl-Rast's analogy of how religions begin and take their shape by comparing their starts to the eruption of a volcano and what transpires over time following the bursts.
In another section, Dan concentrates on various ways to approach scripture that might enliven them for us once more, should our current ways of reading and encountering the material in them have begun to wax cold--and he then suggests how these same approaches might also revive the way we look at and the gifts we receive through our prayer lives, temple attendance, and so forth. He then takes on questions and issues so many of us face as we as individuals interact with institutions. How do we honor both our wants and needs as well as those of the Church? What can we learn from realizing the reality of these different types of goals and how this de-fangs in some way the negativity that can be generated as they end up, as so often they do, at cross-purposes? How can we protect ourselves from being swallowed up by the institution and losing our connection with God and the primacy of our own journey and growth?
We hope you'll enjoy this trip down memory lane, and its refreshers about important themes and sensibilities that often play out within Mormon Matters discussions!
On 16 August 2018, the Newsroom website for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released an official statement that set off a significant discussion that, by all indications including additional commentary on the Newsroom site that came later, will be ongoing for quite a while. The statement begins with the following words from President Russell M. Nelson: "The Lord has impressed upon my mind the importance of the name He has revealed for His Church, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We have work before us to bring ourselves in harmony with His will." The quotation continues and the statement reiterates that more information about implementation of this directive is forthcoming.
Accompanying the statement, the Newsroom piece links to an updated style guide for how to reference the church (asking journalists and its own employees and members to follow this, as well) that encourages the use of the church's full name whenever possible and choosing something other than "Mormon" or "Mormonism" to refer to individual church members or the religious tradition as a whole. It also asks all to eschew the use of the acronym "LDS." Another bulleted item that has generated a good deal of reaction reads: ". . . when describing the combination of doctrine, culture and lifestyle unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the term 'the restored gospel of Jesus Christ' is accurate and preferred."
In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by two experienced and articulate church watchers—Mark Crego and Taylor Petrey—to discuss these matters, including their own reactions as well as those of others with whom they've been speaking with in person or at church or whose thoughts they have encountered online. The conversation also takes us into early Christian history to try to discern the way the earliest followers of Jesus referred to themselves, how important it was to them to have a name, and if so, by their name choice if they were inclined to emphasize being a follower of Jesus, or was it more reflective of their coming to live in a new way that focused on practices centered on loving and forgiving others, sharing resources, assisting those in need, and so forth? It then takes the elements of that dive and relates them to the present moment of the new statement and emphasis.
Beyond that, the panelists wonder about how the leaders and members might implement what is being asked, guess about possible reactions by journalists and members and leaders of other Christian churches (Will they go along with it? Will they be offended by the preferred designations?), as also discuss the provocative claim in the bulleted point about including the "culture and lifestyle" unique to the church in what they should refer to with the term, "the restored gospel of Jesus Christ." Finally, they discuss the form in which this official statement came forth, an announcement emphasizing that this initiative is based on an impression received by President Nelson rather than putting it in terms of it having been an injunction that emerged from the full processes that typically involve careful vetting by and unanimity among the entire First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
Even if you've already begun to formulate your own thoughts about this new push to emphasize the church's full name and de-emphasize monikers that have been around for a long time, you'll be surprised by much that's here in this episode, as it goes into topic areas that are not yet being fully explored in depth. Let the conversations continue!
This episode features reflections on a wonderful experience the two panelists and I shared this past week in Albuquerque, NM. All three of us—Jana Spangler, JoDee Baird, and I, Dan Wotherspoon—attended the August 2018 symposium of The Living School, which is sponsored and operated by the Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) that Richard Rohr, a Fransiscan monk and highly regarded author, speaker, and seminar leader, founded in 1987. The Living School is a two-year “underground seminary” <grin> in which students immerse themselves in the history and practices of the world’s great contemplative traditions, primarily Christianity, but with much crossover with Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and others. The instruction and experiences students have are not only for their own benefit, however. Both the CAC’s and Living School’s name include “action” along with “contemplation.” Students emerge with a greater depth of experience with God/Source/Animating Force of all life, and from that wellspring they work in the world in ways that try to alleviate suffering of all types—whatever they discern as the focus and work they are being called to do.
Besides Richard Rohr, two other incredible teachers and practitioners of contemplation of many types, Cynthia Bourgeault and James Finley, make up the School’s “core faculty.” The rhythm of being a student in the Living School involves attending the August symposium three times, a one-week “intensive” with Richard in the winter or spring of the next year, and committing to studying each month various assigned texts and presentations of the teachings of the world’s greatest mystics and teachers, and then processing in a small group that meets online the ideas and insights that have been striking us most deeply.
We on this show certainly share quite a few specifics about the Living School itself, as we know that some listeners might want to consider applying to it at some future date (in fact, the application process for an August 2019 start is currently open), but even if that doesn’t seem like something feasible for someone, we try to keep our conversation broad enough to be interesting to anyone who feels drawn to deepening their connection with God/Source, their community, and the wider world, especially in action and solidarity with those who are suffering.
I believe you’ll really enjoy listening!
This episode celebrates a new book by Charles Randall Paul, Converting the Saints: A Study of Religious Rivalry in America (Greg Kofford Books), but even more so the ways of he thinks about how we should engage all conflicts over ideas for which there are no clear ways of measuring value or correctness. His direct study in this book examines three different sets of Protestant missionaries in the early twentieth century who came to Utah to convert them to "true Christianity," as well as the different approaches and strategies they employed. These historical examples are placed in very rich context--not only historical and religious but also theoretical. In Paul's hands, the case of Mormon/Protestant attempts at persuasive engagement in Utah illustrate fundamental keys to understanding conflict between values and ideals in many, many situations: certainly political and economic, but also in more directly personal interactions between spouses and partners, wider families, and religious communities themselves. Basically, any situation in which conflicts over deeply important issues that are ultimately unresolvable arise.
In this discussion with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, Randy (as Dan calls him because of their nearly thirty year friendship) offers terrific insights about interpersonal and group dynamics that truly make real, practical sense, shares a bit about the case studies this book shares about, and then offers a glimpse into his ideas for, what Richard Bushman says is "a compelling course of action for transforming harsh conflict to peaceful contestation."
Hint: Randy's proposals call for our more fully owning our own truths and then engaging in attempts to persuade others that ours in the truest view or the best way to approach important questions and problems--and allowing others to openly and vulnerably share theirs with us. These engagements, however, are dangerous as we just may realize areas in our sureties that deserve for us to take another look at, or even that we might become fully convinced by the others and possibly begin to align ourselves with their communities and causes. In short, Randy is calling for far more open-hearted, fully-owned, vulnerable and receptive engagement by "missionaries"--whether religious in nature, or political, economic, philosophical, or something else. He encourages all of us to be willing to come to the arena, agree to follow certain conventions, internalize key attitudes toward the nature of the contestation we are getting involved in, and to then go for it even as we understand that what might unfold there (or "in" us) is unpredictable.
Randy is energetic and engaging, and his insights fresh and very much needed at this time within the United States and rest of the world, as well as within Mormonism as it stands at this crossroads with how to engage intra-religiously and interpersonally with Saints who see things differently than many in leadership (or at least in terms of what they feel able to say publicly) and the majority of those in the pews. This episode is a must listen! Be prepared, though, as you might possibly become changed in some fundamental views and the way you approach engagement with others!
Just two weeks ago, Matt Jones was released as an LDS bishop. How he came to be someone who might be called to that position includes a fun and twisting story. Beginning as somewhat of a precocious youth (an "idiot" in Matt's telling about this period, along with examples!), he didn't take Mormonism too seriously. But with goodly parents who knew how to guide without crushing his fun-loving nature, he eventually made it to a mission, which he loved, marriage to the wonderful Kristie Jones (whom everyone loves!), schooling, and then a successful business career. But soon enough, life brought forth stresses and disappointments, and certain nagging church questions he had as a missionary and genuinely thoughtful began to take center stage a bit more. He details some of these in this interview, but also shares an extremely powerful spiritual experience that left him unable to ever deny (or forget) that there is a powerful God who knows him intimately. You'll never guess what led to it! It's wonderful.
As the conversation continues, we learn about where he "was" in his faith journey when the call came for him to serve as the bishop of the Bothell Ward in Bothell, Washington, and how he approached his service there. (Hint: He was an amazing bishop who urged ward members to focus on the right things: love, kindness, trust, faith, God's desire to be in relationship with us, etc. rather than meeting troubles primarily through our minds or with fears about being judged harshly.) Toward the end of the conversation, Matt shares about another wonderful spiritual experience he had just recently.
All in all, this is a great, fun (and, at times, funny) and rich conversation with a truly delightful person. We know you'll enjoy spending time with Matt Jones in your ears! And we bet he'll find a way into your heart, as well.
This episode arrives on the heels of the release of a marvelous short video, “Do Better, which features LGBT+ Latter-day Saints and allies sharing reflections and experiences from their Mormon upbringing and interactions with its culture. The video originated in the mind of heart of Lisa Scott, who, with assistance from a network of friends and volunteers, brought it forth into the world. It is already gathering many views and is being shared widely. The video is a vehicle for positive change in Mormon thinking and culture.
Richard Ostler was recently released after serving as a bishop of a Utah Young Single Adult ward. Within his calling, Richard came to know and truly listen to the faith and goodness of young LGBT+ adults, including their intense pain and suffering arising in to some degree from Mormon teachings and cultural attitudes. He has now founded the organization “Listen, Learn, & Love,” which in its online presence serves as a resource for LGBT+ Mormons, and Richard also speaks frequently at events by invitation or via his own initiative.
More than just the focus on Lisa’s video, Richard’s outreach, and LGBT+ issues, this episode also tries to encourage all of us to each find “our” passion--that thing (issue, insight, need) that our life has somehow been calling us to engage with, and to then act on that in whatever way we feel inspired to do. So many times we in Mormonism feel as if we need “permission” from a Church leader before acting purely from our own initiative. Our hope in this discussion is to emphasize and help empower every one of us to never be afraid to do good in the world, to act to open hearts and minds, and assist with difficult situations or circumstances ourselves. It can take any of many forms. Let’s do some good!
This is an encore presentation of a two-part Mormon Matters episode first recorded in March 2015.
Of course, we all know that Mormonism is a "religion." But do we always think about it through the lenses of such a big and diverse category? Among those who are born into and/or otherwise live and experience the world primarily through the lenses of Mormonism, most often their focus is on our tradition's “truth claims” as well as the pathway it lays out for “salvation.” And for them, the LDS Church is most often defined in terms of the prophetically guided institution that sets forth its beliefs and practices, and authorizes participation in its sacred ordinances. But like every other religion, Mormonism is more than just these things. It is a key element in identity formation; it articulates core spiritual and ethical values and suggests, either formally or through Mormon cultural influences, how its members should think and act about key matters of the day. In general, it is the primary contributor to a worldview that provides its adherents a sense of orientation and direction in what can often feel like an overwhelmingly chaotic world.
In this two-part episode, religion scholars Laurie Maffly-Kipp and Doe Daughtrey, and classics scholar Margaret Toscano, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to discuss “religion” in a way that opens our eyes to these larger categories (myth, ritual, scripture, ecclesiastical structure, etc.) and the ways that religions influence lives, and to then discusses elements of Mormonism that these broad topic areas help illustrate in particularity. What can we learn and realize about Mormonism when it is seen through comparative lenses? How typical is Mormonism among other traditions in its historical and current-day wrestling with social and cultural issues such as gender, sexuality, race, scripture and sacred texts, women, and authority structures? Can we move from the "truth box" into brighter, richer, more transformative territory? And much more!
This is an encore presentation of a two-part Mormon Matters episode first recorded in March 2015.
Of course, we all know that Mormonism is a "religion." But do we always think about it through the lenses of such a big and diverse category? Among those who are born into and/or otherwise live and experience the world primarily through the lenses of Mormonism, most often their focus is on our tradition's “truth claims” as well as the pathway it lays out for “salvation.” And for them, the LDS Church is most often defined in terms of the prophetically guided institution that sets forth its beliefs and practices, and authorizes participation in its sacred ordinances. But like every other religion, Mormonism is more than just these things. It is a key element in identity formation; it articulates core spiritual and ethical values and suggests, either formally or through Mormon cultural influences, how its members should think and act about key matters of the day. In general, it is the primary contributor to a worldview that provides its adherents a sense of orientation and direction in what can often feel like an overwhelmingly chaotic world.
In this two-part episode, religion scholars Laurie Maffly-Kipp and Doe Daughtrey, and classics scholar Margaret Toscano, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to discuss “religion” in a way that opens our eyes to these larger categories (myth, ritual, scripture, ecclesiastical structure, etc.) and the ways that religions influence lives, and to then discusses elements of Mormonism that these broad topic areas help illustrate in particularity. What can we learn and realize about Mormonism when it is seen through comparative lenses? How typical is Mormonism among other traditions in its historical and current-day wrestling with social and cultural issues such as gender, sexuality, race, scripture and sacred texts, women, and authority structures? Can we move from the "truth box" into brighter, richer, more transformative territory? And much more!
Most Mormon Matters listeners are, as consumers of LDS-related websites, blogs, podcasts, Reddits, Facebook groups, and other social media platforms, enmeshed in the world of “uncorrelated Mormonism.” Whatever is happening in any part of the Mormon world, most of us have ready access, not only to the news but also a great number of comments—many of them hastily made and most without attempts to present a balanced viewpoint. On any given day, we have at our disposal in these uncorrelated spaces (as well as in official church platforms) more information and opinions than anyone might possibly consume with any chance at enjoying the richness of the various items in the feast, which leaves us with the exasperated question, voiced by Stephen Carter in this podcast, “What do we do with all this?”
This episode centers on one of Mormonism’s most important clearinghouses for highlighting, amplifying, and steering us to good discussions of things related to the Restoration that began with Joseph Smith: Sunstone. In its magazine and symposiums, Sunstone brings together the voices of people from all over the Mormon spectrum to share “their” story, to offer chances for all of us to truly “meet” each other and to digest more slowly and with a much better signal-to-noise ratio things happening within wider Mormonism. There is certainly much content about the organization and its upcoming Salt Lake Sunstone symposium (July 25-28) in this discussion with Sunstone’s executive director Lindsay Hansen Park and publications director Stephen Carter, but it also features much broader reflections on the story and changes in emphases of Mormonism’s nearly 200-year history of discussions, especially in its uncorrelated sector. How have the questions changed through the years? What tasks were more important during other periods of Mormon history than what seems to be needed now?
Through listening to these thoughtful, articulate leaders in Mormon discussions, we are given explicit permission to locate ourselves “as ourselves,” as our own “threads in the Mormon tapestry” (the symposium’s theme this year). Lindsay and Stephen offer 10,000-foot views of Mormon discussions taking place “at the margins,” as well as share very personally about their attempts to find and be themselves in today’s wider Restoration world. And, yes, you’ll also hear specifics about what is coming soon to the Sunstone symposium and that will be available for you to read or listen to shortly after the event ends. If you are overwhelmed by all that is going on within the uncorrelated Mormon spaces you engage with, let Sunstone be an oasis for you—a place to stop, rest, and sample in slower, more personal ways, the ideas and writings of many who are wrestling, just like you, with “What do I do with” all this information?
Most Mormon Matters listeners are, as consumers of LDS-related websites, blogs, podcasts, Reddits, Facebook groups, and other social media platforms, enmeshed in the world of “uncorrelated Mormonism.” Whatever is happening in any part of the Mormon world, most of us have ready access, not only to the news but also a great number of comments—many of them hastily made and most without attempts to present a balanced viewpoint. On any given day, we have at our disposal in these uncorrelated spaces (as well as in official church platforms) more information and opinions than anyone might possibly consume with any chance at enjoying the richness of the various items in the feast, which leaves us with the exasperated question, voiced by Stephen Carter in this podcast, “What do we do with all this?”
This episode centers on one of Mormonism’s most important clearinghouses for highlighting, amplifying, and steering us to good discussions of things related to the Restoration that began with Joseph Smith: Sunstone. In its magazine and symposiums, Sunstone brings together the voices of people from all over the Mormon spectrum to share “their” story, to offer chances for all of us to truly “meet” each other and to digest more slowly and with a much better signal-to-noise ratio things happening within wider Mormonism. There is certainly much content about the organization and its upcoming Salt Lake Sunstone symposium (July 25-28) in this discussion with Sunstone’s executive director Lindsay Hansen Park and publications director Stephen Carter, but it also features much broader reflections on the story and changes in emphases of Mormonism’s nearly 200-year history of discussions, especially in its uncorrelated sector. How have the questions changed through the years? What tasks were more important during other periods of Mormon history than what seems to be needed now?
Through listening to these thoughtful, articulate leaders in Mormon discussions, we are given explicit permission to locate ourselves “as ourselves,” as our own “threads in the Mormon tapestry” (the symposium’s theme this year). Lindsay and Stephen offer 10,000-foot views of Mormon discussions taking place “at the margins,” as well as share very personally about their attempts to find and be themselves in today’s wider Restoration world. And, yes, you’ll also hear specifics about what is coming soon to the Sunstone symposium and that will be available for you to read or listen to shortly after the event ends. If you are overwhelmed by all that is going on within the uncorrelated Mormon spaces you engage with, let Sunstone be an oasis for you—a place to stop, rest, and sample in slower, more personal ways, the ideas and writings of many who are wrestling, just like you, with “What do I do with” all this information?