This episode features two wonderful and creative thinkers and religious souls whose lives have been deeply influenced by Joseph Smith. But here is the kicker: neither are Latter-day Saints. Jane Barnes and Rob Lauer view Joseph through eyes we don't often (if ever) encounter within institutional Mormonism. Perhaps very few outside some who knew him personally were attracted by what most fascinates and enlivens them.
Jane was the primary writer and researcher for the 2007 PBS/Frontline and Helen Whitney produced documentary film, The Mormons. During her time working on the film, and even earlier, she came to appreciate Joseph as a dynamic, creative, prophetic figure, and she even had a "conversion" experience in which she understood him as a key figure in her awakening to her own spirituality. Ultimately, her experiences led her to write a much-celebrated memoir, Falling in Love with Joseph Smith: My Search for the Real Prophet (Tarcher/Penguin, 2012).
Rob encountered Joseph Smith in his teens, and connected deeply with him in a way that led him to join the church. As he encountered the disconnect between how he saw and encountered Joseph versus how the church and its culture had tamed him and bleached out of him most of the color and life that he had been attracted to, he left Mormonism. He re-joined for a while, even co-directing the Hill Cumorah pageant for seven years, before he felt Joseph's teachings led him out of the church again—but not because he didn't embrace them any longer but because they empowered him to see his being gay as an essential part of his deep spiritual identity, while also seeing that the church wasn't capable of sustaining him as a gay man. To this day, however, he still says his is a religion "of" Joseph Smith (meaning he believes his key and empowering insights about humans, gods, and life's highest call).
Interestingly, both Jane and Rob encountered Joseph Smith first through Fawn Brodie's book, No One Knows My History, which is generally thought by members as anti-Mormon. For them, however, they found a powerful figure on a unique journey, with gifts and creativity, that became a catalyst for their own spiritual walks.
Notice as you listen to this episode how taking a fresh look at Joseph from outside the "boxes" we in the church so often put him in and want to limit him to can allow us to see him in much more vibrant detail. As writers and artists (novelist/filmmaker and playwright/television producer/newspaper editor), they see Joseph as bold and imaginative as well as good and kind, but also as broken and full of contradictions, many of them that are very unappealing. Still, they see him as a "prophet" in the larger sense of the word rather than the limited view we in the church have cultivated as we have idealized the term, turned the title into a "president" of an institution, and shied away from representing him in all his humanness. It's this very humanness that leads them to love and appreciate him in ways that feel, at least to me, to be much more powerful than the level of encounter of most Latter-day Saints.
Dr. LaShawn Williams (EdD., LCSW, MPA) is on the faculty at Utah Valley University, where she teaches students studying social work. LaShawn was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and faced many challenges associated with being a black child and then black woman in a predominantly white church community (in the United States) from the 1980s to the present day. In this episode she freely and forthrightly shares about these sorts of challenges as they played out in her life and that of her family. But most of all, the conversation involves how these challenges (and a wonderfully supportive parents) led to her developing a fierce sense of her own right to question things and use her voice to speak up for things that so many of us fail to even notice, let alone think about. She also shares how so much of this power and confidence emerged from a deep spiritual life and connection with God and Jesus Christ—one that was often severely tried but never severed.
As a result of this confidence, she and six other black women formed the Black LDS Legacy Committee, which earlier this year began to put on events that brought forward the history and firm roots of black people in Mormonism right from the beginning on through now. And it was through the Committee's determination to tell these stories that the Church itself embraced their ideas in such strength that they became one of the driving forces behind what became the "Be One" event that occurred in the Conference Center on June 1, 2018, acknowledging and celebrating the fortieth anniversary of the 1978 revelation that officially restored to black persons what LaShawn and many others already knew, that all are equal before God, and they should be recognized as such by access to the temple and its covenants and blessings, as well as priesthood power and leadership. It is terrific that in this episode we have a chance to hear pieces of that story—and about what she and the rest of the members of the committee are planning to do next.
In the final section of this two-part episode, LaShawn and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon discuss spiritual work, inner work, Godwrestling, and how and why we are all called by God/Life to re-examine everything and come to better grasp who we are as divine beings who, as is natural, allowed our veiled understanding of this deep truth become clouded by life's ups and downs and various messaging to the contrary that we let influence us and further bury this sense of our noble birthright. The focus, of course, is on ways we can and the importance of going into these difficult spaces, into our woundedness, into the roots of why we often refuse to believe that we are infinitely worthy. It's a terrific segment, as is this whole interview.
We know you'll enjoy listening!
Dr. LaShawn Williams (EdD., LCSW, MPA) is on the faculty at Utah Valley University, where she teaches students studying social work. LaShawn was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and faced many challenges associated with being a black child and then black woman in a predominantly white church community (in the United States) from the 1980s to the present day. In this episode she freely and forthrightly shares about these sorts of challenges as they played out in her life and that of her family. But most of all, the conversation involves how these challenges (and a wonderfully supportive parents) led to her developing a fierce sense of her own right to question things and use her voice to speak up for things that so many of us fail to even notice, let alone think about. She also shares how so much of this power and confidence emerged from a deep spiritual life and connection with God and Jesus Christ—one that was often severely tried but never severed.
As a result of this confidence, she and six other black women formed the Black LDS Legacy Committee, which earlier this year began to put on events that brought forward the history and firm roots of black people in Mormonism right from the beginning on through now. And it was through the Committee's determination to tell these stories that the Church itself embraced their ideas in such strength that they became one of the driving forces behind what became the "Be One" event that occurred in the Conference Center on June 1, 2018, acknowledging and celebrating the fortieth anniversary of the 1978 revelation that officially restored to black persons what LaShawn and many others already knew, that all are equal before God, and they should be recognized as such by access to the temple and its covenants and blessings, as well as priesthood power and leadership. It is terrific that in this episode we have a chance to hear pieces of that story—and about what she and the rest of the members of the committee are planning to do next.
In the final section of this two-part episode, LaShawn and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon discuss spiritual work, inner work, Godwrestling, and how and why we are all called by God/Life to re-examine everything and come to better grasp who we are as divine beings who, as is natural, allowed our veiled understanding of this deep truth become clouded by life's ups and downs and various messaging to the contrary that we let influence us and further bury this sense of our noble birthright. The focus, of course, is on ways we can and the importance of going into these difficult spaces, into our woundedness, into the roots of why we often refuse to believe that we are infinitely worthy. It's a terrific segment, as is this whole interview.
Please listen!
The October 2018 General Conference has just concluded, but certainly not the discussion of it! Not for many, many months in our wards, stakes, and various gatherings of Mormons, and not here on Mormon Matters podcast (though we promise it won't be for "months and months")!
It was a fascinating conference with quite a few different dynamics at play, and so we gathered the next evening three wonderful and brilliant church and conference watcher—Jenne Alderks, Scott Turley, and Sara Lake—to share their immediate, raw, unprocessed but very powerful takes on what they noticed and how they experienced it. What followed was a remarkably energetic, passionate, moving—as well as fun (even a slight bit snarky at times conversation). Along with Mormon Matters host, Dan Wotherspoon, each shared from her or his compassionate and empathetic heart and soul, offering gratitude and praise where they felt it was deserved (and the cases were many), and sorrow, frustration, confusion, and genuine exasperation, sorrow, and hurt over some teachings or leader choices that called for it.
The discussion begins with reactions to, and wondering how the newly announced two-hour block of meetings will play out in the lives of Latter-day Saints. It then turns to key talks and features of the conference. Part 1 addresses a few talks, though some of the same ones continue to be discussed in the second part, but it primarily features an extended conversation about the General Women's Session and its messaging, both wonderful and hurtful, not to mention confusing in its mixed signaling. Part 2 features discussions of the panelists other highlights or lowlights, and is careful to be aware of those who are listening who might not have followed conference at all and are coming to this episode for their first exposure to what went on and how many our reacting to it. Dan closes this section by offering a few comments that remained on his list but were unspoken during the main recording session.
We believe that anyone who listens to this episode will be captivated by the fun the panelists had together even while they were raising deeply heartfelt issues and experiences. Please tune in! You are also invited to contribute to the conversations in the Comments section for this episode at MormonMatters.org. Thank you!
The October 2018 General Conference has just concluded, but certainly not the discussion of it! Not for many, many months in our wards, stakes, and various gatherings of Mormons, and not here on Mormon Matters podcast (though we promise it won't be for "months and months")!
It was a fascinating conference with quite a few different dynamics at play, and so we gathered the next evening three wonderful and brilliant church and conference watcher—Jenne Alderks, Scott Turley, and Sara Lake—to share their immediate, raw, unprocessed but very powerful takes on what they noticed and how they experienced it. What followed was a remarkably energetic, passionate, moving—as well as fun (even a slight bit snarky at times conversation). Along with Mormon Matters host, Dan Wotherspoon, each shared from her or his compassionate and empathetic heart and soul, offering gratitude and praise where they felt it was deserved (and the cases were many), and sorrow, frustration, confusion, and genuine exasperation, sorrow, and hurt over some teachings or leader choices that called for it.
The discussion begins with reactions to, and wondering how the newly announced two-hour block of meetings will play out in the lives of Latter-day Saints. It then turns to key talks and features of the conference. Part 1 addresses a few talks, though some of the same ones continue to be discussed in the second part, but it primarily features an extended conversation about the General Women's Session and its messaging, both wonderful and hurtful, not to mention confusing in its mixed signaling. Part 2 features discussions of the panelists other highlights or lowlights, and is careful to be aware of those who are listening who might not have followed conference at all and are coming to this episode for their first exposure to what went on and how many our reacting to it. Dan closes this section by offering a few comments that remained on his list but were unspoken during the main recording session.
We believe that anyone who listens to this episode will be captivated by the fun the panelists had together even while they were raising deeply heartfelt issues and experiences. Please tune in! You are also invited to contribute to the conversations in the Comments section for this episode at MormonMatters.org. Thank you!
We've all heard statements such as, "Obedience is the first law of heaven." We've also been charged to seek our own light and revelation on any teaching or directive presented before the whole church. What happens when the second injunction challenges the first? If we in good "conscience" (what many Latter-day Saints call the Light of Christ) cannot assent to what's put forward (and this can include in our local church settings, as well), how shall we approach this dilemma? It seems that wrestles with this particular pairing of injunctions—obedience and conscience—arise around general conference time, so this is a timely podcast.
For this discussion, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by the wonderful and thoughtful Jana Riess, Caleb Jones, and Eric Huntsman. Each of them share terrific ideas about how they frame and clarify in their own minds and hearts as the horns of this dilemma arise in their own lives. They dive into the origins of and wider issues surrounding "obedience," and much more! The conversation is absolutely terrific!
Please listen and then share your responses at the Mormon Matters podcast website!
We've all heard statements such as, "Obedience is the first law of heaven." We've also been charged to seek our own light and revelation on any teaching or directive presented before the whole church. What happens when the second challenges the first? If we in good "conscience" (what many Latter-day Saints call the Light of Christ) cannot assent to what's put forward (and this can include in our local church settings, as well), how shall we approach this dilemma? It seems that wrestles with this particular pairing of injunctions—obedience and conscience—arise around general conference time, so this is a timely podcast.
For this discussion, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by the wonderful and thoughtful Jana Riess, Caleb Jones, and Eric Huntsman. Each of them share terrific ideas about how they frame and clarify in their own minds and hearts as the horns of this dilemma arise in their own lives. They dive into the origins of and wider issues surrounding "obedience," and much more! The conversation is absolutely terrific!
Please listen and then share your responses at the Mormon Matters podcast website!